When someone questions Existence of God then challenged part of your religion teachings, what will you do? Should you react calmly and tries to explain in a good manner or would you throw away everything that you have learn and blatantly accusing for blasphemy?
Ever since there was the social media technology present, whenever this type of issue (re)surfaces, the most common path that the commenter chose was the latter.
After finding out why he says that, I could only replied to him was this:
I do enjoy making discussion with this person. Should I use a name to addresses him in this article that would be PS, as his pseudonym. The following are the transcript from the comment sections in that particular social media that I put my interest to reply on each one until I could not manage to answer his needs.
Yes, this might have some sorting & alterations, so that it would be easier for you to read and compare the replies. All italic is referred to the conversation between us, capitalization of the letters is done starting each sentences along with the pronoun 'I'. Other than that, it was taken as such. I shall start with this and so forth as here is where my participation begin (forgive the words use):
PS: If i ask you this, if god exist, then why should he/she create human? Give me your most logical point.. And please don't give shitty comeback; only god knows why and all that crap.. If you haven't had a clue by now, then something's not right.. (in your head)
Me: Most logical point? Explain back to us why there is existence of the word 'God' in English, 'Allah' in Islam, 'Rob' in Arabic, 'Tuhan' in Malay/Indonesia, 'Diyos' in Tagalog, 'Dues' in Portuguese, and many of list from different language describing the word of 'God'...
Ever since there was the social media technology present, whenever this type of issue (re)surfaces, the most common path that the commenter chose was the latter.
Which has satisfies you most, along with proof of discussions&arguments in either side of religion. Comparative studies, shall I remind you some teachings have an extreme point of views. Don't judge it bluntly until provided better understanding from one who does.
My religion is a religion for studying & debate. Even in Quranic verses have questions & answer for mankind. I pray that God will lead us correct path. When the Judgement day come, pray that the judging is done by The God we believe in
Some people here when commenting about another post just to promote hatred instead of providing other to think towards religion. Pity really.
to [Name removed]: sorry I couldn't continue comment on another issue brought by a non-rational apologists. Observation is my stand for now. To judge his/her post away is better from making another statement here which only make him/her in rage.
I do enjoy making discussion with this person. Should I use a name to addresses him in this article that would be PS, as his pseudonym. The following are the transcript from the comment sections in that particular social media that I put my interest to reply on each one until I could not manage to answer his needs.
Yes, this might have some sorting & alterations, so that it would be easier for you to read and compare the replies. All italic is referred to the conversation between us, capitalization of the letters is done starting each sentences along with the pronoun 'I'. Other than that, it was taken as such. I shall start with this and so forth as here is where my participation begin (forgive the words use):
PS: If i ask you this, if god exist, then why should he/she create human? Give me your most logical point.. And please don't give shitty comeback; only god knows why and all that crap.. If you haven't had a clue by now, then something's not right.. (in your head)
Me: Most logical point? Explain back to us why there is existence of the word 'God' in English, 'Allah' in Islam, 'Rob' in Arabic, 'Tuhan' in Malay/Indonesia, 'Diyos' in Tagalog, 'Dues' in Portuguese, and many of list from different language describing the word of 'God'...
It's natural for human to worship. Deep down inside, they will start
to question who is the Higher Power. Man cannot be god as they are
equal, neither to animal as they couldn't develop, spread &
withstand their own community
PS: If the word exists, then it must be real? ok dude... So, when did the "Unicorn" became extinct then? Have you ever seen a "mermaid"? Ooo... Wait a minute, I have to feed my "dragon" and "griffin".. I'll get back to you later, lol..
It IS natural for human to worship, doesn't make it right though, does it? The act itself is a human invention, when they don't have the answer to something, then it's "God knows".. Are you saying, "Man and god are equal"? Are you sure about that? Then why worship?
Me: First of all, I did not realize of the typo "are equal -> aren't equal". Thank you for showing that to me. You did ask me for logical explanation, so I gave you the word God from languages which I manage to put some.
But does the names of the mythical creatures you've mentioned present in all languages in the world or it has its own locale? Which means, the story is limited to that area only. You do know its not real, so why brought it up?
PS: lol, you're welcome. N (and), did you know that the word dragon exists in every culture in the world? In every civilization.. Don't believe me? Well, since you pretty much had a linguistic skill in you, then I guess you should have no problem in doing a research in that matter too, right?
Well, please do so.. And I never knew it's real or not, same as what we've been discussing here (you know what I mean).. But since the "mythical" name existed, by your theory, it must somehow existed once, is it not?
Oo, n (and) by the way mate, the thing is, I dont think your explaination really answers the question.. please read the question again.. It's a "Why" question.. Feel free to scroll again..
Me: Exactly the reason I brought to you the all the words in other languages.' Why humans are created?' To tell all His creations that He (as God) the One who creates thus exist.
PS: That is far from answering the question, you're just stating that every civilization believed in higher being(s), because back then, that is the only way to explain the inexplicable, a counter for the lack of knowledge .. All "invention" must have a certain purpose or "usage", if not, then it's a flop.. In fact, what you're saying is, so He can brag about it? He creates to tell all the creations that He exists? That sounded way too arrogant don't you think?
Me: Now your questions shift from why He created us to why He bragged about His power? Since He is the Most Powerful, why shouldn't He? For God to be 'arrogant' should be different from human who full of oneself. God want His position to be acknowledge, as He is The Creator and we the creations, thus to insert the natural instinct to feel the presence of higher being in to the human hearts. [just to be clear the word 'He' is not gender differentiation]
PS: No, you got it all wrong. You misunderstood the question and the "paradox" of it. The question is the same, nothing shifted. It meant that for he to create is for him to be acknowledge for superiority. And that my friend, is pure arrogant. I was asking what's the purpose for god to create everything? Human especially but still have a "rule" to be followed for one to be put to "heaven or hell" in the end of days. Now that's burdening the "creation"..
Yes it's free will but for a creation to have a self decision; contradicting the maker's urge, now that's a flopped project.. If you cant control your "work", surely its bound to doom. Consider an uncontrollable car, with a self decision making regardless the driver's need, phew, that's a disaster waiting to happen, wouldn't it? To be full of oneself is narcissistic, to ask for praise for the work being done, that's plain arrogant. So, what's the purpose? To be seen superior?
The "brag" and "arrogant" matters came about because you said earlier "...To tell His creations that He (as God) the One who creates.."; there's your reason, right? Morally, what's it's called then?
Me: Your questions about God existence ,still bring me to hold firm my stance, reason of creation about the acknowledgement. Arrogance of Gods is narcissistic? For an Artist, shouldn't He be praised for His works?
Providing the rules of everything. Well, I can't compare what teachings in other religion has, but in Islam, those 'rules' are guidelines so believers can avoid mistakes. For those mistakes, not necessarily brings to direct punishments, coz (because) there is repent
You may not understand what I'm trying to say (not the language 'cause you seems pretty well educated and enlightened, but the context in hand).. If you are someone who can view the world, humanly, then you'll understand what I'm saying.. Open your heart..
Me: Trying to see which part that I missed
PS: You will...
Me: Sorry, had to stray far to get it right.
I started to prove the existence of God by word first (in general), then I come up with reason of creation (still tries to get general), then goes into purpose of the creature itself (praising) then explaining how it is done from my religion point of view. Lastly, I just mentioning; to discuss any religion, should be in total understanding of the language it was brought in.
But in the end "Why" hasn't been answered?
PS: That's ok.. So;
PS: If the word exists, then it must be real? ok dude... So, when did the "Unicorn" became extinct then? Have you ever seen a "mermaid"? Ooo... Wait a minute, I have to feed my "dragon" and "griffin".. I'll get back to you later, lol..
It IS natural for human to worship, doesn't make it right though, does it? The act itself is a human invention, when they don't have the answer to something, then it's "God knows".. Are you saying, "Man and god are equal"? Are you sure about that? Then why worship?
Me: First of all, I did not realize of the typo "are equal -> aren't equal". Thank you for showing that to me. You did ask me for logical explanation, so I gave you the word God from languages which I manage to put some.
But does the names of the mythical creatures you've mentioned present in all languages in the world or it has its own locale? Which means, the story is limited to that area only. You do know its not real, so why brought it up?
PS: lol, you're welcome. N (and), did you know that the word dragon exists in every culture in the world? In every civilization.. Don't believe me? Well, since you pretty much had a linguistic skill in you, then I guess you should have no problem in doing a research in that matter too, right?
Well, please do so.. And I never knew it's real or not, same as what we've been discussing here (you know what I mean).. But since the "mythical" name existed, by your theory, it must somehow existed once, is it not?
Oo, n (and) by the way mate, the thing is, I dont think your explaination really answers the question.. please read the question again.. It's a "Why" question.. Feel free to scroll again..
Me: Exactly the reason I brought to you the all the words in other languages.' Why humans are created?' To tell all His creations that He (as God) the One who creates thus exist.
PS: That is far from answering the question, you're just stating that every civilization believed in higher being(s), because back then, that is the only way to explain the inexplicable, a counter for the lack of knowledge .. All "invention" must have a certain purpose or "usage", if not, then it's a flop.. In fact, what you're saying is, so He can brag about it? He creates to tell all the creations that He exists? That sounded way too arrogant don't you think?
Me: Now your questions shift from why He created us to why He bragged about His power? Since He is the Most Powerful, why shouldn't He? For God to be 'arrogant' should be different from human who full of oneself. God want His position to be acknowledge, as He is The Creator and we the creations, thus to insert the natural instinct to feel the presence of higher being in to the human hearts. [just to be clear the word 'He' is not gender differentiation]
PS: No, you got it all wrong. You misunderstood the question and the "paradox" of it. The question is the same, nothing shifted. It meant that for he to create is for him to be acknowledge for superiority. And that my friend, is pure arrogant. I was asking what's the purpose for god to create everything? Human especially but still have a "rule" to be followed for one to be put to "heaven or hell" in the end of days. Now that's burdening the "creation"..
Yes it's free will but for a creation to have a self decision; contradicting the maker's urge, now that's a flopped project.. If you cant control your "work", surely its bound to doom. Consider an uncontrollable car, with a self decision making regardless the driver's need, phew, that's a disaster waiting to happen, wouldn't it? To be full of oneself is narcissistic, to ask for praise for the work being done, that's plain arrogant. So, what's the purpose? To be seen superior?
The "brag" and "arrogant" matters came about because you said earlier "...To tell His creations that He (as God) the One who creates.."; there's your reason, right? Morally, what's it's called then?
Me: Your questions about God existence ,still bring me to hold firm my stance, reason of creation about the acknowledgement. Arrogance of Gods is narcissistic? For an Artist, shouldn't He be praised for His works?
Providing the rules of everything. Well, I can't compare what teachings in other religion has, but in Islam, those 'rules' are guidelines so believers can avoid mistakes. For those mistakes, not necessarily brings to direct punishments, coz (because) there is repent
Free will: no human creator in this world can manipulate
easily his man-made creation bcoz (because) of the 'restrictions of rule' in this
World of His. Physics that we learn now, could only provide us how to
make life easier. What we learn on earth, doesn't mean it could brought
to space with the same rule. You could come up with science & its
theories, but still, why couldnt we bent them to our own right?
We human could only observe, research, but could we 'create'. Basically, we tries to immitate
So, do we really have the so called free will? Or we just have the ability to plan for something, but not the outcome. Some might come up with 'its just luck, we can't control that' or 'nature has its own course'. When things happen, we still have the reasoning of cause of failure, but do we have it if it is all success/ according to plan?
PS: Free will? Yes of course we have.. If god let us on our own to decide our path be it good or bad, then it's already free will. If not, then there shouldn't be, in religious view; heaven and hell now would it? Free will is about the action of doing something; unbounded, it doesn't include the consequences (that's what u call "fate"). It's our own decision.. If there are such things as fate, yes in Islam, fate is certain; then why bother doing anything if it is already written in the book? see?
Me:"In Islam fate is certain"? Even I don't know whether; I will dies as a religious muslim to be grant Heaven for good things on HIS views (may us be guided by HIS will), or make my own mistakes and sent to hell..
PS: Precisely the point.. leaning on fate regardless of faith, is a non-salvation, so why bother...
Anyway, I can see that you're a civilized few when discussing such matters. So, that I gotta give it to you, salute.. Not to stereotype others, but I gotta tell you, most people will "melatah" when it came to this topic. And no offence to anyone, Muslims mostly will.. That's a fact. To believe in something needs faith, not fear.. Thats the main problem. When they dont know the answer, they'll get pissed.. I wonder why? From the tree, comes the fruit. "Represent.."
One thing I might add, discussion of any religion should be based on its original language/ manuscript of teaching. Provided that the translation of any word might have many or different meaning according to the context used. Thus causing misinterpretation to those who use
PS: Original transcript, yes. Translation is made by human. Be it translated
or not, it's the same how we perceive things in certain books. You can
read, but still you have to somehow translate it to words that you
understand, else, it would just be what it is; a reading without
comprehension. If things are so complicated, then what's the use? Religion was supposed to ease human, whatever the religion is. To lead a
better path, right? So, why should it be too taxing to certain group of
people?We human could only observe, research, but could we 'create'. Basically, we tries to immitate
So, do we really have the so called free will? Or we just have the ability to plan for something, but not the outcome. Some might come up with 'its just luck, we can't control that' or 'nature has its own course'. When things happen, we still have the reasoning of cause of failure, but do we have it if it is all success/ according to plan?
PS: Free will? Yes of course we have.. If god let us on our own to decide our path be it good or bad, then it's already free will. If not, then there shouldn't be, in religious view; heaven and hell now would it? Free will is about the action of doing something; unbounded, it doesn't include the consequences (that's what u call "fate"). It's our own decision.. If there are such things as fate, yes in Islam, fate is certain; then why bother doing anything if it is already written in the book? see?
Me:"In Islam fate is certain"? Even I don't know whether; I will dies as a religious muslim to be grant Heaven for good things on HIS views (may us be guided by HIS will), or make my own mistakes and sent to hell..
PS: Precisely the point.. leaning on fate regardless of faith, is a non-salvation, so why bother...
Anyway, I can see that you're a civilized few when discussing such matters. So, that I gotta give it to you, salute.. Not to stereotype others, but I gotta tell you, most people will "melatah" when it came to this topic. And no offence to anyone, Muslims mostly will.. That's a fact. To believe in something needs faith, not fear.. Thats the main problem. When they dont know the answer, they'll get pissed.. I wonder why? From the tree, comes the fruit. "Represent.."
Me: For Muslims who are irrational, they are not at the right state of mind. Nor to be said as 'Muslim' = Man of Peace. For people who speak with 'melatah' attitude, has nothing to do with his knowledge to offer his stand, even to represent his religion.
No one in his right mind could think properly when anger at rage except with his instinct. Which at that time, to mock people due to questioning his intelligence.
PS: For the sake of "world peace", I really hope you're right. Because if I elaborate more on Islam especially after the hijrah, I can assure you, most muslims will explode.. (wait a minute, that doesn't sound right, forgive the pun..)
Me: Nice pun
PE: LOL
Me: [While I'm at it] So, don't judge Islam & its teaching, or even other religions, when only few mans claims he is from this teachings while at the same time doing bad impression to his own Religion. Perhaps, he has never intended to defend his beliefs, but to fulfill his own intentions.
PS: Lastly, we discussing god in general; in the first place;, not specific to one's religion.. You said it yourself, didn't you? There's a lot of "names" for god(s), are they the same? I guess not.. What matter is, the "WHY"? And seems like nobody can answer that question...
On the artist perspective, he/she should be praise for a job well done; but for one to create a masterpiece, is for his/her satisfaction, and usually, for money, it's a job. But respects are to be earn, not asked for. So, to create "something" 'for the sake' of "be praised" or "be respected" by his own creation; and nothing else; is somewhat unacceptable. It came back to arrogance (again).. I know about Islam, very well, oo yes, very well.. (if you knew me, you'll know why and how i did.. )
How will he be judged? Who will judge? In what religion will he be judged?
Me: How his believer 'praises' the arts that God creates? By following His 'rules'. Teaching of Islam didn't separate religion from daily activities, thus, with the correct way to 'perform the praises', it is delivered.
God's respects will be earn if someone praises HIM. If there is a non-believer did not accept HIS existence, then, He won't get the praises, in the end, it was not the Creator is arrogant, but the creations. If you playing 'free will' of not to believe
No one in his right mind could think properly when anger at rage except with his instinct. Which at that time, to mock people due to questioning his intelligence.
PS: For the sake of "world peace", I really hope you're right. Because if I elaborate more on Islam especially after the hijrah, I can assure you, most muslims will explode.. (wait a minute, that doesn't sound right, forgive the pun..)
Me: Nice pun
PE: LOL
Me: [While I'm at it] So, don't judge Islam & its teaching, or even other religions, when only few mans claims he is from this teachings while at the same time doing bad impression to his own Religion. Perhaps, he has never intended to defend his beliefs, but to fulfill his own intentions.
PS: Lastly, we discussing god in general; in the first place;, not specific to one's religion.. You said it yourself, didn't you? There's a lot of "names" for god(s), are they the same? I guess not.. What matter is, the "WHY"? And seems like nobody can answer that question...
On the artist perspective, he/she should be praise for a job well done; but for one to create a masterpiece, is for his/her satisfaction, and usually, for money, it's a job. But respects are to be earn, not asked for. So, to create "something" 'for the sake' of "be praised" or "be respected" by his own creation; and nothing else; is somewhat unacceptable. It came back to arrogance (again).. I know about Islam, very well, oo yes, very well.. (if you knew me, you'll know why and how i did.. )
How will he be judged? Who will judge? In what religion will he be judged?
Me: How his believer 'praises' the arts that God creates? By following His 'rules'. Teaching of Islam didn't separate religion from daily activities, thus, with the correct way to 'perform the praises', it is delivered.
God's respects will be earn if someone praises HIM. If there is a non-believer did not accept HIS existence, then, He won't get the praises, in the end, it was not the Creator is arrogant, but the creations. If you playing 'free will' of not to believe
One thing I might add, discussion of any religion should be based on its original language/ manuscript of teaching. Provided that the translation of any word might have many or different meaning according to the context used. Thus causing misinterpretation to those who use
You may not understand what I'm trying to say (not the language 'cause you seems pretty well educated and enlightened, but the context in hand).. If you are someone who can view the world, humanly, then you'll understand what I'm saying.. Open your heart..
Me: Trying to see which part that I missed
PS: You will...
Me: Sorry, had to stray far to get it right.
I started to prove the existence of God by word first (in general), then I come up with reason of creation (still tries to get general), then goes into purpose of the creature itself (praising) then explaining how it is done from my religion point of view. Lastly, I just mentioning; to discuss any religion, should be in total understanding of the language it was brought in.
But in the end "Why" hasn't been answered?
PS: That's ok.. So;
1. Existence of the god's word, doesnt prove the being exists. (Amon Ra exists?)
2. As to create to be praised, that seems pretty much arrogant (again); and a bit ADD.. lol
3. How it is done only describes your belief and how to conduct to your belief, on your own perspective, not a proof of existence.
4. About understanding, well, we've been through that in past comments, nothing to do with the topics discussed
So, yes, "why" in the most logical sense, hasn't been answered..
Me: Amon Ra as 'the Ancient God of Egypt', try read again about the debate regarding its deity. Most so-called God of the ancient egypt are only Pharaoh (king) recognize themselves to be God. In the debate, Amon Ra existence has relation to Jesus in Bible or Prophet Isa in Al-Quran.
Human arrogance, we both hates. If God has HIS own arrogance, even if one hated it, what harm could he do to God? Blasphemy? Disbelieve? Some might really wants to be acted upon by Gods wrath, but why bother?
[end]
Few weeks later (I suppose), the email notifies me. Have you been in such position? Could you help us to answer such question from the start?
2. As to create to be praised, that seems pretty much arrogant (again); and a bit ADD.. lol
3. How it is done only describes your belief and how to conduct to your belief, on your own perspective, not a proof of existence.
4. About understanding, well, we've been through that in past comments, nothing to do with the topics discussed
So, yes, "why" in the most logical sense, hasn't been answered..
Me: Amon Ra as 'the Ancient God of Egypt', try read again about the debate regarding its deity. Most so-called God of the ancient egypt are only Pharaoh (king) recognize themselves to be God. In the debate, Amon Ra existence has relation to Jesus in Bible or Prophet Isa in Al-Quran.
Human arrogance, we both hates. If God has HIS own arrogance, even if one hated it, what harm could he do to God? Blasphemy? Disbelieve? Some might really wants to be acted upon by Gods wrath, but why bother?
To leave the questions unanswered is just leaving
everything hanging doesn't it? I'm truly sorry couldn't manage myself to
explain and reasons. My logic & yours may and may not coincide. Even
the very best scientist mind couldn't come up a good all accepting
theories of mankind. Theories one after another, till proven.
Good for you questioning the purposes, hope you and I could continue searching the most accepted reasons till we satisfied our needs. Both stands on what we believes.
Good for you questioning the purposes, hope you and I could continue searching the most accepted reasons till we satisfied our needs. Both stands on what we believes.
Which has satisfies you most, along with proof of
discussions & arguments in either side of religion. Comparative
studies, shall I remind you some teachings have an extreme point of
views. Don't judge it bluntly until provided better understanding from
one who does.
My religion is a religion for studying & debate. Even in Quranic verses have questions & answer for mankind. I pray that God will lead us correct path. When the Judgement day come, pray that the judging is done by The God we believe in.
My religion is a religion for studying & debate. Even in Quranic verses have questions & answer for mankind. I pray that God will lead us correct path. When the Judgement day come, pray that the judging is done by The God we believe in.
[end]
Few weeks later (I suppose), the email notifies me. Have you been in such position? Could you help us to answer such question from the start?
This particular person whom I have made discussion (I prefer this term more than 'debate') with left me this:
Which part of my post that he referring to?